Last modified: 2010-02-27 by pete loeser
Keywords: ufe | unidentified flags |
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Identification Key:
= Positive ID (Positive Identification)
= Tentative ID (Tentative Identification)
= Some Speculation Tentative ID
Speculative Image by Peter Loeser, 19 December 2009
Do you have any insight into what flag consisting of 6 horizontal stripes, alternating red and white, with white at the top (i.e. w-r-w-r-w-r) would be related to the destruction of Speyer by Louis XIV's forces in 1689 (Nine Years War)? Any insight you can provide would be much appreciated.
Christina Rosati, 3 January 2009
UFE09-1 is the same flag currently used by Wismar city (Mecklenburg-Vorpommern) and can be found at this webpage
City of Wismar (Germany), but I am afraid it doesn't match the context, another guess would be some other Hanseatic city flag.
Klaus-Michael Schneider, 31 January 2010
I could have sworn we had some discussion of this, but I don't see it. Maybe we had a similar one? Flying from a ship? Well, Spires' own colours would be red and white as well. Did we ever get additional information, about the source?
Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg, 1 February 2010
Some Speculation
Image by Klaus-Michael Schneider, 5 January 2009
Unknown flag, probably New Zealand: It is a blue ensign of unknown ratio with a squarish canton of unknown ratio. In the lower fly is a white disc with a coat-of-arms. Description of coat-of-arms: In a blue shield are five red 5-pointed stars fimbriated white. The shield is topped by a crown.
Source: Cigarette Album: "Flags of all Nations"; Richmond, Virginia, 1888, edited by cigarette manufacturers Allen & Ginter
Klaus-Michael Schneider, 5 January 2009
Idle speculation of course, but I wonder if this was meant to be the representation (however mistaken) of a square colonial blue jack (that is the jack which could - theoretically at least - be flown by the civilian-manned ships owned by a colonial administration)?
Christopher Southworth, 5 January 2009
My guess is that it's a misinterpreted design of the Australian state of Victoria (which was, at that time, a separate colony). Certainly NZ wasn't using anything. There was a NZ flag of about that era, which had four red stars on a
white disc in the fly, but nothing like the one shown here. Certainly NZ has never to the best of my knowledge had a flag of any sort with five stars.
James Dignan, 5 January 2009
Some Speculation
Image by Lespey, 19 January 2009
From your web site, I can't find this flag. I'm sure is Japanese, probably from WWII but I can't find any info. I'm a Japanese WWII collector of 31 years and never seen this one.
Lespey, 19 January 2009
Looks very much like a signal flag of some sort, although not in current use.
Pete Loeser, January 2010
You may be right about its being a signal flag, but I don't recognize it. It's also possible that it's some kind of a distinguishing pennant for a sub-flag-level commander, of a flotilla or squadron or such, or a senior officer afloat pennant for some navy or another. Or even a yacht burgee.
Joe McMillan, January 2010
It looks like this mysterious yellow/black "signal flag" might be an U.S. Naval signal flag, not Japanese at all. See UFE10-15b on the UFE 2010 page.
Pete Loeser, 11 February 2010
I don't think UFE09-3 is the right shape to be a signal flag. Perhaps it is a marker flag
David Prothero, 16 February 2010
Tentative ID
Image by Donald Shannon, 30 January 2009
I am the curator of the National WWII PT Boat Museum at www.battleshipcove.org. I am currently researching the origin of a flag I have attached 2 images of the flag. If you can provide any information on this flag I would greatly appreciate it.
Donald Shannon, 30 January 2009
I have not been able to identify the flag, but I have located very similar emblems used by the Merchant Marine College around 1910. It has the same star emblem in red, but not the circle. Perhaps it is the flag of the college a few years later? Perhaps this similar design may help others to identify the actual flag in your museum.
Ralph Kelly, 30 January 2009
Positive ID
This flag was positively identified and moved to its correct location as the flag of Ceiba, Puerto Rico..
Image by Peter Lenagh, 7 February 2009
This flag was posted on eBay and the seller says it came from the Tumbling Waters Flag Museum. It is 27 x 96 (inches). There also seems to be one that has the fleur de lis in blue and yellow. After several days of looking the best conclusion I could come up with was NAVA. The scale is wrong on the V... but NAVA may be the answer.
Peter Lenagh, 7 February 2009
Positive ID
Images provided by Jim Megura, 8 February 2009
I am trying to find someone who may have a general knowledge of flag design from the 17th C. I own an early painting, believed to be 17th C, and it has British ships and gunships in a harbor, with a large flag visible on the mainland. It is
that flag on the mainland which I am trying to identify, seemingly a major European port city. We are also trying to then determine if this painting represents a rendering of some historical event, perhaps an attack or treaty. Perhaps you can refer to me someone who might have such knowledge. (Large flag is shown enlarged as inset in photo above.)
Jim Megura, 8 February 2009
I think I see red in the saltire of the British Union jacks at the bows of the two ships; that would place the painting post-1801.
Albert S. Kirsch, 11 February 2009
Definitely 18th century, if not early 19th as Al suggested -- not 17th. The boats in the foreground do not appear to be warships, so this may not be a military attack on a town.
T.F. Mills, 11 February 2009
The design of the large vessel at the left-hand edge of the painting is late seventeenth century, say 1670s or 1680s - it has very prominent quarter galleries picked out in gold, characteristic of English and Dutch ships of the period. The flag on the fortress does have a Spanish look, although there is a slim chance - a very slim chance - that it is a regimental colour belonging to one of the Irish regiments in French service, but that particular regiment was not serving in a coastal fortress in the period in question. If it were supposed to be the Mediterranean, I would expect to see more lateen-rigged vessels, but that's not conclusive.
Ian Sumner, 11 February 2009
Another possibility is that it's either Russian or eastern European, given that a lot of naval flags from that region are UJ-like designs.
James Dignan, 11 February 2009
Could it be a wrongly depicted Russian jack and fortress flag (1700-1917)? The usage matches; could this city be Finnish or Estonian?
António Martins-Tuválkin, 11 February 2009
Image by
David Prothero, 12 February 2009
The flag on land forms the hoist of a pennant in the notebook of William Downman, 1685-6. It is reproduced in "Flags at Sea" by Timothy Wilson, National Maritime Museum, 1986. The whole pennant is shown above. There does not seem to be any available information about Cap Presmant.
David Prothero, 12 February 2009
It need not, of course, be a painting that represents an actual event. Marine painters of the period often painted "capriccios" - vessels set against backgrounds which were typically Mediterranean, or typically Dutch, or typically East Indies, without intending that it should be identified as a particular place. So this could be a generic battle painting, which may account for the confusing (or at any rate, unidentifiable to us) details; for if you were
painting an actual event, you had to get the details right, otherwise survivors of the battle would be quick to tell you where you went wrong. I suspect that if it was a generic painting, there would be more action, but you never know ...
Ian Sumner, 14 February 2009
One minor indication as to date is the size of the cantons in the red ensigns, which tended to be smaller during the interregnum of 1649 - 1660.
Christopher Southworth, 16 February 2009
Tentative ID
I was trying (without success) to find which Australian club (likely to be in the Northern Territory, Singapore or Queensland) which has a triangular pennant (apex of the triangle to the right) where the top half is yellow, the bottom
half white and a yellow lower case "e" on black background at the base (left) of the "triangle"/pennant.
Owen, 21 March 2009
I did find that it was a Singapore club which sponsors annual offshore races. Unfortunately, the club name presently evades me.
Owen, 14 January 2010
Tentative ID
Image by Nadim El Helw, 13 March 2009
I watched a video on YouTube which featured footage from the evacuation of British troops from Egypt and celebrations about it. At the celebrations we can see soldiers holding a flag which was the national flag of Egypt at that time with stripes around the crescent and three stars arranged in the shape of a kite. I have attached a screenshot from this video showing this flag and an approximate image of the flag. I would like to know what this flag is (perhaps some kind of military flag) and it would be great if you could feature it on the FOTW website.
Nadim El Helw, 13 March 2009
This flag is a regimental colour.
Mohamed Hossan el Din, 13 July 2009
Which regiment? (so it can be marked as indentified)
Pete Loeser, 1 December 2009
Tentative ID
Image by Nadim El Helw, 20 April 2009
As I passed by a military hospital in Cairo I saw a military flag I had not seen before and which isn't on FOTW. It was green with the national flag in the canton and crossed swords in the canton like I attached. I do not know what the flag is.
Nadim El Helw, 20 April 2009
I believe that this is an Army rank flag, I am not sure of the exact rank.
Mohamed Hossan el Din, 13 July 2009
A curious flag, the green field is like that used during the Kingdom & Republic of Egypt (1923-58), the crossed sabers are the emblem used by the Egyptian Army, and the canton shows the current Egyptian flag. Does anybody know what rank this is for? (so it can be marked as indentified)
Pete Loeser, 1 December 2009
Image provided by Ernest Rugenstein, 4 May 2009
What flag is this? Soldier was in Italy in '45.
Ernest Richard Rugenstein, 4 May 2009
Some Speculation
Image by Monique Rubin, 25 May 2009
I saw this flag today, and I just can't figure out what it means. Can you help me? I've attached my own drawing of it.
Monique Rubin, 25 May 2009
The colours are those of the flag of Trinidad and similar to the flag for "Diver Down", although in both cases the stripe should be diagonal.
Rob Raeside, 25 May 2009
This is all guesswork, but my first thought is that it looks like some Soviet-era flags, many of which were red with thin stripes close to the base. I don't know of any which used black, though there are a huge number of them, so it's possible. Similar designs are still used in some parts of what was Soviet Union - the Independence Movement of Chechnya's Flag, for instance, has similar design elements (though this is clearly not the flag you saw). Red, white and black are the colours of the Russian republic of Udmurtia, so maybe there's some connectionthere.
James Dignan, 25 May 2009
Positive ID
Image provided by Creston Raines, 29 May 2009
I am the Adjutant of VFW Post 7498 in Port Hadlock, WA and have had a collection of 21 historical flags donated to the post. I have been able to find descriptions of 19 of these flags, but [this one] seems to be unknown. I am hoping that you will be able to shed some light on these [it]. We have these flags on display around the perimeter of the post with a brief history on each flag. Any history will be greatly appreciated.
Creston Raines, 29 May 2009
The original of this flag was a flag formerly in the collection of Boleslaw & Marie-Louise d'Otrange-Mastai. It is illustrated, in their landmark book "The Stars and the Stripes," on page 136 wherein they identified it as an 1861 proposal for a flag of the nascent Confederate States of America. These were widely available as reproductions offered during the American Revolution Bicentennial by a short-lived California flag company, Golden State Flag Co., which marketed these through Safeway grocery stores. Its actual identification remains speculative, but the original was sold at auction by Sotheby’s on October 10, 2002, as one of four pieces as Lot 82 for $7,768.00. Its current location is unknown to me.
James Ferrigan, 30 Aug 2009
Image submitted by Al Kirsch, 3 July 2009
The image above appears in The Economist, as New York commemorates the arrival of Henry Hudson, then working for the Dutch East India Company. Is the flag in the painting the artist's fantasy or is it a real flag, vintage 1609?
Al Kirsch, 3 July 2009
Positive ID
Image submitted by Dominique Cureau, 14 July 2009
Do you know what is this flag that I saw in Lucerne (Luzern). It represents the head of a man with a cap to 3 balls in yellow on a red background. See it also at http://vexil.prov.free.fr/.
Dominique Cureau, 14 July 2009
This is the flag of a Lucerne carnival (mardi gras) guild: The "Maskenliebhaber" guild, formed in 1819 to further friendship and liberal ideas and to support Lucerne carnival and the wearing of masks. You may want to check this website: http://www.luzerner-fasnacht.ch/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=8&Itemid=31
Philippe Macherel, 27 December 2009
Positive ID
Image by Kevin Evans, 15 July 2009
(Star modified by Pete Loeser, 1 January 2010)
Can you identify the flag pictured here? Obviously it is a variation of the Bonnie Blue, but is there some other significance than a fancy Bonnie Blue? It was seen on a flag pole in Pontotoc, Mississippi (I think). It was flying just below the US flag. Maybe a municipal flag?
Kevin Evans, 15 July 2009
That flag is the flag of an organization called the "Silver Star Families of America" - Their website is http://www.silverstarfamilies.org/. Founded 2005, the Silver Star Families of America are dedicated to supporting and assisting the wounded and ill and their families. Their "goal is to recognize the blood sacrifice of our wounded and illnesses incurred during combat, and remember their efforts by honoring them with the Silver Star Banner." (from their website) Go to http://www.stevenewtonbestofthebest.com/Flying_Silver_Star.jpg for a picture. (Note: The star color is actually a pale silver.)
Jan Mertens, 8 August 2009
Image submitted by Alexsandar Nemet, 21 July 2009
I wasn't able to find this flag on the FOTW site. It is hung in the parliament of Georgia. A small image is found on an
English language web page; a larger image (cropped above) is found on a
Georgian language page.
Alexsandar Nemet, 21 July 2009
Positive ID and Tentative ID
Image provided by "lancer525", 21 July 2009
I work in a house museum, and on the wall in one of the rooms, we have this hand drawn image of two flags. According to the files, this image "dates to the late 19th Century" and is "two flags from the Confederacy". I have never seen either of these two flags before, and while they look like Confederate era flags, they aren't quite exactly like any I have ever seen. One has a color reversal in the canton, and the other has a different star pattern. I would deeply appreciate any and all information anyone might know about either of these two flags.
"lancer525", 21 July 2009
Image from Museum of the Confederacy, 09 Sep 2009
The flag on the left is currently in the collection of the Museum of the Confederacy # WD335: described as a 48"x 74"; 2nd National (variant with colors reversed) captured at the battle of Paine's Cross Roads, Virginia, April 1865, by Sgt. John A. Davidsizer of the 1st PA Cavalry. The flag on the right is a CSA Grand Luminary, I will check to see if I have any information on any with just 10 stars.
James Ferrigan, 09 Sep 2009
The flag on the right is an intermediate version of the 1st Confederate National Flag. Note that it has only ten stars in the canton rather than the final thirteen. There could have been some confusion over the status of the State of Tennessee which joined in a military alliance with the Confederacy on 7.V.1861 but did not formally join the Confederacy until the Act of \Succession was ratified by plebiscite on 8.VI.1861. The State of North Carolina joined the Confederacy on 20.V.1861 making it the official tenth Confederate state. I will speculate that this flag was made some time in the month of May 1861 or the beginning of of the month of June 1861.
David Pritchard, 18 Sep 2009
David Pritchard has correctly identified the chronology of the 10 star CSA 1st Nat. flag, but not the flag; we must remember that this in not a flag, but rather an image of a flag. Never-the-less, I concur with the dates, but that only gives us the tip of an iceberg. The Confederacy only officially had ten states for 41 days. The design shown in the image would place it between 21 May to July 2 1861 = 1 month 12 days = 42 days, a narrow window. Furthermore, the design of an inverted Grand Luminary make it intriguing as the Grand Luminary would have been an anathema to the Confederacy as they believed in “States Rights” rather than a strong central power. I am going to look for images of Confederate flags with a similar star pattern, as I’m unaware of any surviving flag with this design. Confederate flags with a Grand Luminary or Great Star design are very rare, and I have a file on images, but I do not recall if I’ve seen one like this, and the file is in storage in Nevada, so further research will have to await my return. My suspicions are that this painting is an allegorical post-war image.
James Ferrigan, 19 Sep 2009
Image of "Great Star" made from 10-stars
For those of you suffering from a terminology breakdown, a "Grand Luminary" or "Great Star" flag is one whose stars are placed in a pattern that form one large star. Notice the second Confederate flag has an upside-down 10-star "Great Star" on it.
Pete Loeser, 1 January 2010
Tentative ID
Image provided by Ann Meacham, 24 July 2009
Have not been able to identify the following flag pin. Interesting that the style (note the rope detail wrapped around staff) matches another flag pin identified as the sport club Slavia Praha Rowing Club. Perhaps another club with international members?
Ann Meacham, FlagEmporium.com, 24 July 2009
I might be a flag pin showing an erroneous version of the flag, of former Rudergesellschaft "Nelson“ Halle, before German reunion located in Goslar. The club meanwhile merged with RC Böllberg Halle and is today part of SC Halle. The
flag of "Nelson" however had only 9-stripes. (I checked it at RA77 and the club’s website as well) Due to all other parts, however, it is a perfect match. (See: Hallesche RV Böllberg (German rowing club)
) To be on the safe side, I send a copy to SC Halle, maybe they can reconfirm my information.
Klaus-Michael Schneider, 28 July 2009
Positive ID
Image from Rhonda Thompson, 30 July 2009</p>
Hello, I am trying to identify a flag I saw recently. Although it looks like a country flag, I have not been able to find it. The flag is yellow with one narrow green stripe on the right and left edges and 3 vertical narrow red
stripes in the center. The flag was seen as a decal on a truck here in Tucson yesterday and, being interested in flags, I began to look it up when I got home. I could not find it in international flags, military flags nor religious flags.
Rhonda Thompson, 30 July 2009
It's very common, specially among US War Veterans to have medal-related flags or flags designed after a ribbon of a given Order, Decoration or Medal. In this case, the flag is based on the ribbon of the Vietnam Service Medal. The flag is
based on the ribbon of this medal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vietnam_Service_Ribbon.svg). For more information on this medals please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_Service_Medal.
Esteban Rivera, 31 July 2009
Some Speculation
Speculative Image by Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg, 7 January 2010
I received this query about a casket flag. He seems to have ruled out fading as an explanation. Is there another?
He said "I have a flag I received at my uncle's funeral in 1955. The 48-star flag that was placed on his casket...has several gold stripes where the white stripes should be. The first, second, fourth, and sixth white stripes are all gold, while the third and fifth are white."
Albert Kirsch, 24 October 2009
Since I'm no good at visualising, I created this UFE by coloring a flag. I couldn't really make anything out of it, except this seems is the only way to leave two stripes white that don't touch an edge anywhere, with one gold stripe in between. But if it was about the white stripes, they would probably have been gold. So I looked at it the other way around: this flag bears three gold bands, with more or less the same amount of gold in them (top one slightly more). I would interpret a flag on a caskets as a military custom; if his uncle served in the military, did he maybe have a rank that is symbolised by three gold bands?
Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg, 7 January 2010
"I have a large 48 star flag the size given at funerals when a serviceman dies. The first stripe below the stars is gold rather than white like the rest. What does this signify? Is this a veteran killed in the war? Thanks, Judy."
Yet another inquiry concerning gold stripes on the U.S. flag. Is there really anything to this?
Al Kirsch, 25 February 2010
Image A
Image B
Speculative Images by Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg, 26 February 2010
Al, It would appear to be some sort of tradition. This second asket flag also has 48 stars. That still doesn't give us much of an interval, though. What do we know about the earliest and latest. We don't know about this custom or cause for now, which suggests it doesn't exist anymore in 2010. If this second writer is right, it appears to be casket flags relate: When did the custom start of using flags over caskets and presenting those to the closest relatives afterwards? Is this a fact? Are casket flags uncommonly large and would there be a size specifically for flags used for that purpose?
If Judy doesn't know whether it's related to a military funeral, then we're not likely to find out more for her. Could you ask her whether she can speculate about what veteran it could be for? (If she found this some place unrelated, there's nothing to make of it, I fear.)
Following my earlier theory, this would be a service flag for someone with a rank that can be represented with one gold band. If these cases are related, they would suggest that it's more than just someone's good idea for one of their own, though. Is there an organization that would have been responsible for such flags in the period of 48 stars that we
might contact?
I made a version with one gold stripe. Then I changed the stars all to one shape. Then I shifted them a bit. Then I changed the relative sizes of the stripes. And in between I kept recoloring to create other versions from whichever I was working on. Finally, these are the results: Image A - One stripe of gold.
Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg, 26 February 2010
Is this the same person asking, or somebody completely new? If new, it would indicate that the American Legion or Veterans of Foreign Wars would have some knowledge of the tradition. As a member of both the Legion and the VFW, I'll ask.
Pete Loeser, 25 February 2010
Al, the reason that I said it would be three, rather than four, bands is because of that arrangement. If it would be four bands, it would have been impossible to create it neatly from just the white stripes. The best then would have been using four gold stripes next to each other. Instead, the gold is divided by the white stripes, suggesting it is really intended as three bands. Why is the upper one double? Maybe because the symbol they approximated has one thicker band, has some extra symbol sitting on top of the third band, or similar. Or maybe they were just compensating for that stripe not continuing all the way up to the hoist. Considering these possibilities, what servicemen could be represented with three such gold bands?
Any luck yet on the rank of the uncle?
Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg, 26 February 2010
This is not an uncle; all she said was "a serviceman." As for ranks, I don't know. I do know that navy officers have one, two, three, or four stripes on their shoulders for ensign, lieutenant, commander, and captain, respectively (army/marine/a.f. equivalents lieutenant, captain, major, and colonel, roughly) but don't know if this has anything to do with casket flags.
Al Kirsch, 26 February 2010
I received this reply to my inquiry about gold stripes from the American Legion: "As the fifteen-year resident flag ´guru´ here at National Headquarters, this is the first time we have ever been asked this question! From time to time we will receive a question about 48-star flags with gold stars. Have you made contact with Dr. Whitney Smith? He is THE FLAG GURU and might be able to offer some insight. If you do come across something would you mind sharing it with us? - Michael Buss, Assistant Director, Americanism and Children & Youth Division."
Pete Loeser, 26 February 2010
The practice of using flags on caskets, then presenting the flag to the family, appears to be a practice of long standing. I've never known a time without it, although I wasn't around for World War I. :-) There is an official "casket flag." US Army and USAF protocol say 5' x 9.5' in size (1.5m x 2.9m), which is pretty big. We're doing mostly guesswork here and I suggested that Judy stop by a veteran's organization and ask there, and to let me know if she finds out anything. If she does, I'll pass it on so we'll know for sure. Assuming the veterans are correct :-)
Al Kirsch, 26 February 2010
Three Positive IDs and One Tentative ID
Image from Aleksandar Nemet, 1 September, 2009
Image from Eugene Ipavec, 29 September 2009
I found this photo with three flags visible (caption of image is "Flags from various Arctic Communities"), but I only found the middle flag (left photo, center flag) at FOTW site,which is the ( Arviat Flag of Nunavut, Canada.
)
Aleksandar Nemet, 1 September, 2009
My guess is that the one saying "Kuujjuaq" (left photo, right flag) has some relation to http://www.nvkuujjuaq.ca/ One to go. What is it were seeing on that one?
Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg, 1 September, 2009
The Flag of Puvirnituq can be seen on this photo (right photo, right flag). Puvirnituq is an Inuit settlement on the Povungnituk River near its mouth on the Hudson Bay in northern Quebec, Canada. Its population is only 1287 (2001). The name means "Place where there is a smell of rotten meat" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puvirnituq,_Quebec). The Second flag (right photo, left flag) is a flag of 2nd Service Battalion, a unit of the Canadian Forces (CF). The flag of a service battalion is a horizontal tricolour, red over yellow over blue. The red represents the Medical Corps, yellow Logistics, and blue the Engineers. The flag also has a large Arabic numeral (representing the battalion's number) in the centre, extending into the red and blue bars. This flag was designed by Chief Warrant Officer Phil Raven during his time as RSM of 2 Service Battalion in the 1970s. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_battalion)
Eugene Ipavec, 29 September 2009
Positive ID
Image from Aleksandar Nemet, 28 December 2009
While researching Turkish Underwater Sports Federation (Turkiye Sualtı
Sporlari Federasyonu) flags I found this photo on the official site with an athlete holding an unknown flag, does anybody recognize it?
Aleksandar Nemet, 28 December 2009
This is probably related to ODTÜ Underwater Sports: http://www.sas.metu.edu.tr/drupal/. Do we have a list member with a sufficient grasp of Turkish to browse the website?
Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg, 23 January 2010
Thanks to this link Peter provided, I found that this is a flag of Middle East Technical University. Here is another photo with vertical flag on their official site: http://www.fde.metu.edu.tr/fotograf6/images/100_0465_JPG.jpg. For more about university and emblem you can read on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Technical_University and for details on the emblem at: http://www.metu.edu.tr/tov/about/emblem.php
Aleksandar Nemet, 24 January 2010
