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From Vecernji list, 28-JAN-2000 [my notes in
brackets]
Is the Croatian Coat of Arms really unconstitutional and should
it and the flag be changed - with the designer Brois Ljubicic and
historian prof. dr. Niksa Stancic
The flag - a visual code
The flag project of the designer Boris Ljubicic was made in July
1990. - The idea is based on synthesis of the historical
elements: the tricolour and the Croatian coat of arms. The
tricolour is very frequent flag, and therefore the coat of arms
is the basic differential element. The economic, political,
cultural and sports contest of the new state requires
recognisable, effective and differential visual characteristics.
The interchangeable squares already represent different contents
HRT [Croatian national TV house], tourism, Zagreb International
Fair and there is need to link it with the basic, ceremonial,
offical and unique identity of the state, and that is her flag.
Japan, Switzerland and US treat their flag as a visual code or a
symbol of grat corporation - explains Ljubicic.
We are not a monarchy, so we do not need coats of arms
If the Croatian coat of arms is unconstitutional is the question
recently incited by dr. Slaven Letica. After we wrote about that
we were contacted by a historian prof. dr. Niksa Stancic, member
of expert committee that in 1990 worked in the first phase of the
work on new coat of arms, and afterwards by well-known designer
Boris Ljubicic, who for some time thinks about integral Croatian
visual identity, so he has his own proposal for a new Croatian
flag! - Croatia have to create an image of herself, and our
current flag with the coat of arms associates to 19th century and
monarchies period. The state is presented in the worlds by her
visual identity that should be a Croatian product ¯ highlights
Ljubicic. ¯ Most of the modern states, even those that are still
fomally monarchies, like Great Britain, Denmark and Sweden, on
their flags have no coat of arms to symbolise the hereditary
ruling dynasties. It happened to us to entangle in flotsam and
jetsam of, so called, art history, in stead to make the modern
visual identity, by redesigning the traditional elements, that
could be incorporated into symbols of our companies. Even if, for
example, Privredna banka [large bank of Zagreb, previously state
owned], is sold to Italians, in its it is not clear that it is a
company that work and act in Zagreb. Ina [state owned oil
company], Agrokor [large private food industry] and others should
have clear symbol that those are Croatian companies, as it is
visible in the symbol of the Italian Benetton, containing green
colour from Italian flag and bringing it to Croatia - said
Ljubicic.
We can discuss the coat of arms, but not its constitutionality
Prof. dr. Niksa Stancic, historian in History Department, Faculty
of Philosophy in Zagreb, lead the expert committee that
participated in the first stage of the creation of the new
Croatian coat of arms in 1990. - Just after the elections in
1990, dr. Domljan [president of parliament at the time] asked me
to establish a workgroup. Our task was not to propose the shape
and contents of the coat of arms, but to provide the expert
background, to warn the politicians who shall determine the coat
of arms on the heraldry rules. We have given the models how the
coat of arms could be done. We warned also that new heraldry does
not respect and does not have to respect the rules of the
traditional heralrdy. According to heraldry, the coat of arms
have obligatory and non-obligatory elements. So, a rank symbol if
obligatory, a symbl of baron or count, or, in case of a state, a
symbol for monarchy or republic. The traditional symbol of a
republic is a three-towered city, and out coat of arms is
somewhat historized, something that could symbolize a historical
kindgom. The fact that there is something beside the basis of the
coat of arms is not unconstitutional, nor it is against the
heraldry rules. I submitted our proposals to dr. Domljan, so he
engaged the painter Miroslav Sutej, who made many designs. We met
several times with president Tudjman. On one of those meetings
dr. Tudjman accepted exactly this proposal for design of the
Croatian coat of arms, that was best among the proposed. It was
Sutej's failure to let the coat of arms of Dubrovnik in the corwn
to differ from the original. maybe to him, as artist it was not
of such importance. It is objected that the goat is Italian
symbol. The coat of arms of Istria is the coat of arms of
Austrian duchy of Istria, much younger then the rest of coat of
arms, but it is generally accepted in Istria. The coat of arms of
Croatia was also used by all possibly ideologies, from feudalists
to reformers, Stjepan Radic [Croatian politician between two
WWs], Ustashas, partisans, but that should not mean that it is
now unacceptable if most of the people accept it. The oldest
preserved red-white coat of arms is the one on Cetina seal of 1st
January 1527, when the Croatian Sabor [parliament] adopted
Habsburg dynasty [for Croatian kings].The oldest known Croatian
coat of arms, the first one in the crown, is the coat of arms of
late 12th or early 13th century, preserved on a coin of the
Croatian Herzeg [Duke] Andrew, latter to become
Croatian-Hungarian king Andrew II. It is inscribed in the coin
Dux Croatiae. I do not know how much it would be wise today to
think about the change of the coat of arms with which we have
gone through independence struggle and Homeland War. I had
different opinions about its contents and how it was designed,
but it constitutionality can not be questiopned - said prof.
Stancic.
by Željko Heimer, 30 January 2000
[image: flag 3ª6 square fields 1st row: RWRWRW, 2nd row: WRWBWR, 3rd row: BWBWBW] - The Croatian flag according to the idea of Boris Ljubicic
by Željko Heimer, 30 January 2000
The late president Tudjam have choosen the current Croatian
coat of arms and the flag among some 30 odd proposals
Željko Heimer, 30 January 2000
Other articles suggested that since Croatia is not a monarchy,
it should not have the crown on its coat of arms. Maybe the idea
of no coat of arms is a corruption of the idea to remove the
crown?
Jonathan Dixon, 1 Febuary 2000
Yesterday we were celebrating our Statehood Day here in
Croatia, as one may expect a flag-rich day, and an opportunity
for me to check what kind of flags are used. A trip to the centre
of Zagreb proved to be useful, and a walking tour in the old town
yet more. Here are some of my remarks.
As you may remember, not so long ago I wrote about the flags that
were hoisted on the trams during the public holidays, following a
larger discussion on the topic. Then I said that such flags were
hoisted in the old Yugoslavia day regularly on every holiday, but
that since the independence I have not noticed the new Croatian
flag hoisted this way.
Since then I had the chance to observe a small detail - the wires
on which such flags were hoisted (Yugoslav + Communist party
flags) where removed from the left driver's windows, at least in
the several trams I was driving in (as I supposed in the previous
message).
However, yesterday was the first time (as if they wanted to prove
against me) that I saw the small Croatian flags hoisted in that
place. They are rectangular now (not triangular, as they were
before), and I guess attached to the window in some other way
than on the wire. I am glad that someone in the Zagreb traffic
company remembered this nice habit.
As one could expect, there were a lot of the regular Croatian
flags, much more than the others, that I call under one name
"unofficial". I list here examples that I noted - they
differ only in the details of the coat of arms. As the Croatian
flag is among those that are rather complicated in this matter,
it is no wonder that it is so. It is my belief that all these
flags were made in the early days of independence i.e. 1990/1991,
when the pattern was not officially established, or there were
yet not enough official flags on the market, so people acquired
what there was available, or what they did themselves. Such flags
would be yet in quite good condition, unless they were hoisted
all the time (and they were obviously not). Such unofficial flags
are seen only on private buildings, and never on the
administrative/government buildings - at least here in Zagreb
today.
All the flags are, naturally, red-white-blue tricolours with a 25
pieces red-white chequy shield. All of them are in 1:2 ratios, or
very close to it. Here is the list of differences:
![[Croatia - first unofficial variation]](../images/h/hr!1.gif)
by Željko Heimer
![[Croatia - third unofficial variation]](../images/h/hr!3.gif)
by Željko Heimer
![[Croatia - fifth unofficial variation]](../images/h/hr!5.gif)
by Željko Heimer
![[Croatia - seventh unofficial variation]](../images/h/hr!7.gif)
by Željko Heimer
1-6 are variations of the same pattern, probably from
different manufacturers, and as far as I am aware, there are no
differences in the meaning of those. For the discussion on the
order of red-white cheques, see the
relevant discussion in these pages.
Number 7 is quite distinct, and I had not seen it until now. I
saw the flag from quite close, and it seems that it is a
silk-screen printed - which would mean that it was made in large
numbers. It is my assumption that this could be a flag
manufactured abroad, say in the United States, for the Croatian
groups there, and acquired by the owner. If so, then it might be
older than 1990.
Željko Heimer, 31 May 1998
Flag with Ustashe-like Shield
![[Croatia - seventh unofficial variation]](../images/h/hr!8.gif)
by Željko Heimer and Zach Harden, 31 December
2004
While looking on the Internet, I stumbled on this website,
<www.croatia-versand.de>.
This is a variant of the Croatia flag, and from looking
deeply, used by the Ustashi supporters.
Zach Harden, 31 December 2004
Indeed this is a flag that could be seen in Croatia relatively
often. It is usually used by the politically right-winged
supporters, but not necesserily those openly claiming the Ustashe
heritage. It is also quite often used in B&H by Croats as
kind of a "All-Croatian" national flags (i.e. as nither
the flag of the Republic of Croatia nor the flag of former
Hezeg-Bosnia).
It should be noted that this flag is indeed not equal to the Ustashe established flag of Croatia - it
does not include the Ustashe party symbol in the canton.
Anyway, while this is a flag variant used by some and in clear
violation of the Croatian law (that prohibits displaying the
Croatian flag in any changes, similarly to the legislative
heritage of Continental Europe), I do not think that anyone was
ever fined for that or that even anyone of officialls thought of
doing that. However, unlike other flags in this page that are
politically unbiased, this one has clear political message.
Željko Heimer, 1 January 2005
1)
by Željko Heimer, 25 May 2003
2)
by Željko Heimer, 25 May 2003
Here are the two most often errorneous representation of the
Croatian flags - as are often found in vexillological literature
and otherwise trustworthy sources.
Note that both flags are correct in regards of colours (not
difficult) and the coat of arms is here shown almost perfect,
even the size is right - however, the vertical position of it is
wrong. Both are results of "logic" that the emblem is
in the middle. The first one is taken so literally that the
rectangle outscribing the coat of arms is centered in the middle
of the flag, producing the coat of arms much lower then it should
be.
The other probably notices the problem (or by some other reason)
and sets the rectangle of the shield only in the center of the
flag, so that the top part of the shield enters into the red
stripe, getting the coat of arms too much towards the top.
The correct place for the coat of arms is such that the top of
the shield matches with the edge of the red and white stripe. At
the same time, the top line of the lower row of squares should
match the edge between white and blue. I.e. the four rows of
squares should be as wide as the white stripe (allowing for the
thin white and red border around the shield which is abstarced in
this consideration.)
The two incorrect flag are also often to be seen among foreign
produced flags on the interational events, even in cases that
should know better like visits of Croatian high officials abroad.
Željko Heimer, 25 May 2003
Most of the flasg in Croatia contain the coat of arms in the
middle. This is usualy worded in the decisions most
unfortunately, so that the middle of the rectangle is very
precisely and overwordedly defined, while the center of the coat
of arms is left for the reader to decide what they really mean.
That would read something like this "the coat fo arms is set
so that its center matches the point that is the intersection of
the two diagonals connecting the oposite corners of the rectangle
forming the flag field" or something like that, as if saying
the middle of the flag field could be anything else. On the other
hand - what center of the coat of arms did they had in mind -
geometrical center (which may not be that easy to establish where
it is in a complex shield shape) or the midpoint of the
horizontal and vertical axes - i.e. the center of the bounding
rectangle. Anyway, as a result, the complicated coat of arms
would in practice be obtained as a patch (clipart if you wish)
and the centered according the bounding rectangle - even if that
is surely not what the legislator had in mind (or did he) -
anything else would be less practical.
Željko Heimer, 30 May 2004